tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17180228.post1238568718518452400..comments2023-12-04T13:56:50.585+05:30Comments on Attemptations -- attempts at temptation: Theatre Of The AbsurdProloy Coomar Pramanikhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06187500497064175156noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17180228.post-29869168795764129982011-09-09T03:23:22.523+05:302011-09-09T03:23:22.523+05:30@John
Thanks for your appreciation. However, it&#...@John<br /><br />Thanks for your appreciation. However, it's hardly in my power to publicize my blog posts any more than I've already achieved! I neither receive grants, nor have the media chasing me... ;-)<br /><br />What worries me is that Anna Hazare is a guy who can't think at all. At 72, his words have the maturity of a teenager -- mindless sloganeering, with no need ever felt for making sense. Almost everything he says is utter nonsense. To give an example, he called for government babus to go on a day's leave to express support for Jan Lokpal Bill, when, funnily, the bill is meant to care of the corruption of these very people, who he alleges to be causing grievous hurt to ordinary citizens. The government babus anyway don't show up for work, and Anna is giving them the excuse for another day off. And that so many people are lining up behind Anna simply shows that they are capable of thinking even less than Anna can. No wonder India remains such a horrific mess.<br /><br />Anna succeeded in making his bill land up on the Standing Committee's desk with twelve days of fast. Which is what the Committee has been asking him to do since day one -- that he can come over and present his case, just like any other citizen can. Well unless the objective were to create a Guiness Record of fasting and gather numerous claps in the process, I don't know what he achieved which couldn't have been done without the fasting. It's like Salman Khan beating up the goons to free the heroine, when the goons had voluntarily agreed to free her. It does make for blockbusters, though, and that's what has propelled Anna to Hero No 1. Sense be damned. After all, we go to theatre to relieve ourselves of the need to think.Proloy Coomar Pramanikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06187500497064175156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17180228.post-88387096558154495452011-09-09T03:11:32.714+05:302011-09-09T03:11:32.714+05:30Thanks Raj and John, and earlier Balakrishna, Srin...Thanks Raj and John, and earlier Balakrishna, Srinivas, Sivatheja, and 'losing now' for your comments.<br /><br />@Raj,<br /><br />I agree with you to a very large extent. Legislation, no matter how strong or elaborate or draconian, can never be a substitute for personal integrity. However, where I differ is that I believe having an overseeing body over government functioning is necessary and long overdue. But I'd want to break the problem of corruption into two parts -- the upper level, and the retail level. The retail level corruption -- of the variety of a police constable taking bribe, or a fair price shop owner swindling supplies etc -- is way too rampant for legislation to have any effect on, no matter how well-intentioned. In fact, these exist despite all laws already being present to deal with them, simply because nobody makes any written complaint despite millions cribbing all the time. It's absolutely foolish to think that prosecution can take care of this issue, for no other reason than that prosecution is a costly and time-consuming affair, and ultimately the loss to the public exchequer to carry out these prosecutions would be much higher than what such retail corruption causes. <br /><br />The only way out is for victims of retail corruption to stand their ground and refuse to pay bribes, which is assuming that they were somehow coerced to pay it, which I do not believe is true in a large majority of cases. I believe 80-90% of bribe payment is voluntary, with the intention of either getting a benefit, or to ward to off imaginary ghosts of problems to face unless the bribe were paid. <br /><br />And that is not going to improve even with a new law coming in. This is despite the fact that the Lokpal Bill is actually no "law" at all -- it's simply a charter for setting up a body to apply the law, where the underlying "law" being still the good old Prevention of Corruption Act of 1988, which the Lokpal Bill refers to in every section.<br /><br />I'd want the Lokpal to have a very focused mandate to have any chance of success. It has to limit itself to the upper executive, and exercise very close, hawk-eyed supervision of the functioning of higher bureaucrats, ministers, and other public functionaries. This being a smaller number is a much more achievable target, than the removal of corruption lock, stock and barrel from every nook. But Anna has been mobilizing his support precisely on this false promise that a law is possible to remove all corruption, if only it were draconian enough. If implemented with the scope that Team Anna wants it, the Lokpal will only be recipe for disastrous failure, and degenerate into one more hurdle for ingenious minds to jump over, as you put it.<br /><br />If 95% of Indians are against corruption, then they should teach integrity to their own children, through precept and example, and in fifteen years time, when the new generation takes over, corruption would anyway disappear, law or no law. Isn't it...?Proloy Coomar Pramanikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06187500497064175156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17180228.post-16473845597189309392011-09-06T18:43:42.054+05:302011-09-06T18:43:42.054+05:30Proloy,
Good post. But one request - can you plea...Proloy,<br /><br />Good post. But one request - can you please make your future attemptations shorter? :-P I would prefer more frequent shorter pieces to infrequent long ones.<br /><br />I am not certain at all that any form of legislation - Lokpal or otherwise - can effectively combat corruption. The fundamental issue has to do with poor personal integrity and any form of legislation is bound to be simply seen as one more hurdle that must be crossed so everybody can go back to doing what we've been doing all along. Lokpal is attractive only so long as it is something that applies to others.<br /><br />As you pointed out corruption exists and at the scale that it does because that's what most people want. I wonder if a majority of Anna's supporters would still be around if they are asked to back their fervor with personal accountability.Ranjuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14458704629974265988noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17180228.post-17076948185091881692011-09-02T23:22:49.254+05:302011-09-02T23:22:49.254+05:30proloy, it must have taken a lot of patience for y...proloy, it must have taken a lot of patience for you to study the bill, critically analyze it and to write up a post like this. Very valid points! And you have said it in your own inimitable style. Funny yet it makes one think. You should spread this message around, as far as you can. Implementation of Jan Lokpal is simply a recipe for disaster. Even before its implementation, as you said, and as anyone can see, it has all the elements (centralization of powers, more or less handpicked appointment committee, lack of accountablity, monster power, possible selective application and many such things) to collapse on its own. I'm glad government did not bow to the pressure created by the media around this Anna and team. Middle class tax payers are frustrated and lokpal is definitely needed to control corruption. Personally I would approach the whole bill creation in a much different way to ensure we have a robust bill to deal with corruption. Anyway, goverment version is somewhat OK to start with. Better yet, a national consensus can be sought with points like whatever you say being addressed or taken into consideration in the revised version of the bill. Again, proloy, good job of creating awareness among literate people!Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16171958277910191551noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17180228.post-46944564588024273312011-08-27T19:39:10.901+05:302011-08-27T19:39:10.901+05:30@Deb:
Thank you for reading and posting your comm...@Deb:<br /><br />Thank you for reading and posting your comment. (I'm assuming you read it, despite the fact that you referred to nothing in particular from my post.)<br /><br />The trouble with posting generalities is that nobody can be quite sure whether you are contradicting yourself or the other guy. I have difficulty understanding statements like:<br /><br />1)Its in our pattern of thought that we choose a reference point from where we can say something to validate our own existence.<br /><br />2)Public support is neither for Anna nor for any of the version of the bills.<br /><br />3)a bill creates compulsurily creates provisions for laws to be framed by the body that is created by the bill.<br /><br />especially, if these are meant to be contradictions of something that *I* stated.<br /><br />The profundity of these statements is beyond my horizon of grasp.<br /><br />If Anna's bill is not what the public supports, then I'm confounded as to what they are doing assembling at Ramlila Grounds and shouting slogans.<br /><br />When you say: -- 'a bill creates compulsurily creates provisions for laws to be framed by the body that is created by the bill' -- are you in some way suggesting that Lokpal will have powers to frame laws too...? And which particular version of the bill has said this...?<br /><br />With the general good opinion that you seem to have for both versions of the bills, I wonder if your case is that both be enacted as laws -- to keep it balanced, perhaps?? <br /><br />On the government side, I have evidence that the draft will go through a series of modifications as the Parliament and the Standing Committee deliberate on it and scrutinize it. However, on the Anna draft, my current understanding is that Team Anna has already ordained that the Standing Committee have nothing to do with it, and the rest of the Parliament too act as nothing more than a rubber stamp. Anna's draft is nothing short of an apocalyptical revelation from god which brooks only reverence, and no scrutiny.<br /><br />If you have any quotes where Team Anna has said that they are open to review (and possible rejection based on merits) of their proposals by the Standing Committee or Parliament, please show it to me.<br /><br />As far as I know, Team Anna has shown the great generosity of saying that Parliament is free to adopt any version of the Lokpal Bill so long as it has the same wordings as Anna's draft.<br /><br />And thank you for inquiring after my 'state of stress'. You needn't hazard any guesses -- I've been eating quite well!Proloy Coomar Pramanikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06187500497064175156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17180228.post-6565874903216659942011-08-27T16:19:48.367+05:302011-08-27T16:19:48.367+05:30Sorry to say, your post is suitably titled for _yo...Sorry to say, your post is suitably titled for _your_ post, and not for either the movement of the drafts of the bill. Its in our pattern of thought that we choose a reference point from where we can say something to validate our own existence. We neglect the total view. Public support is neither for Anna nor for any of the version of the bills. rather public support is for the movement against corruption. If you read both Anna's and government's bills carefully, you will see that there are provisions to accomodate things as situations arise. Please read the clauses carefully once again. There are glaring deficiencies in both the versions of the bills, but thats how bills are drafted. Ther are not drafted as closed and complete laws. Also, a bill creates compulsurily creates provisions for laws to be framed by the body that is created by the bill. You seem to be under perennial stress to make your voice heard, and that too for a long time.<br /><br />Deb<br /><br />Kolkata, West Bengal-https://www.blogger.com/profile/01466826394319425238noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17180228.post-74182279758048071852011-08-27T13:48:56.562+05:302011-08-27T13:48:56.562+05:30A very conscientious effort Proloy. The point is w...A very conscientious effort Proloy. The point is well made. I agree with you for the most part. Wish there were more sane voices like yours. Keep up the good work.<br /><br />Balakrishna GanapathyBalakrishna Ganapathyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13838205776831117851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17180228.post-75888151003555333692011-08-27T01:59:18.238+05:302011-08-27T01:59:18.238+05:30Good one.. makes good sense.Good one.. makes good sense.Srinivashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17650388007264024203noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17180228.post-9762610758781547962011-08-26T17:44:35.308+05:302011-08-26T17:44:35.308+05:30Fantastic! A very keen and brilliant analysis!Fantastic! A very keen and brilliant analysis!Sivathejahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10173256581226990067noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17180228.post-20554996880483011662011-08-23T03:33:23.782+05:302011-08-23T03:33:23.782+05:30Brilliant post, proloy.
Losing NowBrilliant post, proloy. <br /><br />Losing Nowlosing nowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05906218234282555755noreply@blogger.com